Parts of this transcript are analysed in Interrogation
and Confession in Risk Assessment
(Short Article published in June 97 Focus Supplement on HIV Test Counseling)
and Draft of Thesis Chapter 5 (long version
of above article)
C: Yellow _____.
P: m hm
C: And er y (.) you are holding yellow ____ you've read the information
about this: (.) study
C: yes [I have
P: [are you willing to participate
C: sure
P: Okay. W We're taping this session. If at any point you're uncomfortable
just tell me and we'll stop.
P: Okay.
C: Okay? Ahh, Have you been tested before
P: Mmm, yes I have been.
C: How long ago
P: (Only) the last one must have been ah probably about a year and a half
or two years ago
C: So we could say maybe January of 1994?
P: Mm[m:
C: [possibly. It's [not crucial
P: [N:o. actually, later than that,[1993, late 1993.
C: [Okay so.Let's say eleven, October 1993
P: Yeah
C: we're just looking for an approximation anyway. Was that your first test?
P: Uhh, no, actually that was my second test.
C: Okay. And your result of [the test?
P: [Ahh, negative.
C: Okay. Where was that test?
P: Ahh, Madison, WI.
C: Okay. Was it an anonymous or a confidential site, in other words, did
they know who you were?
P: Ah no, they didn't.
C: Okay. That's the same as here, it's anonymous. So I am _______, as I
announced on the tape, and you are "Mr. Number." Okay?
P: O(h)h okay.
C: Ahh, and later on you'll be another number when you go home. Alright,
when you go home. And bring that number back in two weeks for your result.
P: M hmm.
C: That's where the anonymity gets really important, I mean I sort of joke,
you're yellow Number and I'm ______ and that, but when you come back for
your result it means only you are going to get that result. So you need
that slip.
P: M hm
C: It means we're not going to give it to anybody else
P: Mm
and if you need it for someone else, or for a piece of paper, or for a report,
or something like that, you know to give to someone, or for a visa, or documentation
or a passport, this is not the place to be. Comfortable with that?
P: M hmm Yeah.
C: Okay. Ah since you've been tested before, I won't go into like, how much
you know about HIV and all that sort of stuff. I look at. I look at this
as as much of a dialogue as we can do,
P: M hm.
C: okay? So this part of the test, you did the big tough part tonight, you
waited,
P: (laughs)
the waiting is the tough part. Ahh, we're doing what's called a risk assessment,
P: M hm.
C: and we're going to, between the two of us, try to figure out where your
risks are, okay,=
P: M hm
C: =if you are at risk. And when we finish that, you have to wait a few
more minutes, and we're have to take some blood from you
P: Okay sure.
C: And the blood drawers are very experienced, but if you have some problems,
just let them know about it
P: Okay, no problem.
C: And when they're done, because we're sort of fixated on this, they'll
repeat to you that it's two weeks for the results again, so you'll hear
it at least three or four times.
P: Okay.
C: If you can't make it back in two weeks we'll keep 'em for two months.
P: Alright.
C: Alright? Okay. *All that said*, and I've been talking too much, it's
your appointment, so feel. stop me if I ask anything you don't understand
or you don't even know why I'm asking it. But why don't you tell me why
you're here tonight, since you haven't been tested in two years and a couple
months, and. why you're concerned, if you're concerned.
P: Yeah, because actually lately, I've had unprotected sex, and ahh plus,
it was about a month ago. And ah, then I just want to get myself tested.
C: Okay, you had unprotected sex sex a month ago.
P: Mmm, yeah.
C: Had you had some before that, in the.in the two years.
P: Ahh, in the two years no. Uh hn.
C: It was always protected or [just ( )
P: [It was, actually: um, (1) cause I was in a long term relationship, then
I broke up with my girlfriend, and then after that I just had ahh sex probably
two times and that was protected [(.) during the this whole two
C: [Okay
P: years.
C: Okay. This unprotected incident, what was it.vaginal sex? [(female sex?)
P: [Yeah yeah
C: Okay, now the antibodies probably won't show I don't they won't
show up (1) from that. You're gonna have to wait a little longer for that.
P: M hm.
C: So that's a question of whether or not you wanna (.) finish this test=
P: =Cause I thought it said the antibody shows they show up from two weeks
from two weeks to six months.
C: Twelve weeks to six months.
P: Twelve weeks to six months.
C: M hm. This will give you a very clear baseline for six moths ago, but
it won't check you in for that incident a couple weeks ago.
P: Oh I see.
C: So I mean we can go through with this, we're half way through with it
no:w (.) and you can get a baseline for six months ago and know where you
are. But that won't show up.
(2)
P: Umm, then I just have to wait till another twelve uh.
C: Have to wait about. you really should wait about, to be perfectly sure,
to wait about five months, four months at least.
P: Four months at least.
C: Yeah, because you said it was about two months ago or a month ago. You
said a month.
P: Ahh about a month. About a month yeah
C: You should wait, so say it was in late December, you should wait 'til
June.
P: Til June and then come back.
C: Yeah, (1) if you test tonight it could be a baseline but up 'til that
it's your call.(2)
P: No I'd go ahead this time.
C: Okay, this will give you a baseline,
P: yeah
C: to start, okay, And also tells how much risk you're at.
P: M hm.
C: You had vaginal unprotected sex about a month ago.
P: Yes.
C: Okay. Ahhh, (1) And that was there is any oral sex involved?
P: A:::h, n:ot from my part but my partner did=
C: =Your partner on you,
P: Yes, on me=
C: =Alright. And you didn't wear a condom.
P: N:o
C: That's your partner's concern. I mean you've got to [be responsible and
that sort of stuff,
P: [Yes
C: but I mean.Also oral sex is lower (.) risk (.)than vaginal [sex
P: [but still there's a chance
C: There's a chance but it' a small MUCH smaller chance, okay we
of risk. And vaginal sex, (0.5) passage to a male, while there's a chance,
is not as high risk as (.) anal sex, so we need to put this into a continuum
of risk, [okay,
P: [M hm
C: because we're trying to assess your risks. And that was the only unprotected
incident in the last (.) up since your last test?
P: Yeah, in the last, probably yeah, two years almost two [years.
C: [Okay. So (0.3) I have to mark that sheet vaginal sex this year
"sometimes condom use." [Okay.
P: [yeah Uh
C: That's how I'm marking it. I'm marking "no anal sex" because
you indicated no anal sex.
P: Uh-huh
C: Okay.How about any finger play or anything like that?
P: No
C: Okay. How bout oral sex? We talked about your partner going on you, (.)
going down on you. Do you ever go down on the partner?
P: Nnno, I haven't.
C: Okay (0.5) okay.(3.8).okay. And there wasn't condom use on that
P: N:o (not the last one)
C: Okay.okay. Female partner, any male partners in your history?
P: No
C: Okay. (.) Any partners tell you they were HIV infected?
P: No.
C: Did they ever tell you they used intravenous drugs or did you know they
used intravenous drugs?
P: Not to my knowledge.
C: What about yourself, have you ever used intravenous [drugs?
P: [No.
C: Okay. How bout alcohol?
P: (.) >I drink sometimes<=
C: =Okay. In the context of ssexx.I bring it up because (.) and I mean you're
you sound
P: I remember cause last time and that was a big facto(h)r th
C: See?
P: t(h)hat I had drunk.
C: And you're aware of that.
P: Yes, defin absolutely.
C: Were there condoms around, or just you were encouraged, or we don't need
to do this? or what was going on
P: Nnn there was no condoms around actually, otherwise I would have used
it [and I just
C: [Okay
P: you know I just felt kind of uncomfortable to bring this up (.)
you [know? so let's wait and
C: [And so you had some, now you have got anxiety and you came in a month
later for
P: Yeah (laughs)
C: So you're uncomf. you're going to be uncomfortable for five months, now!
P: Yeah that's true
C: So there's a tradeoff.
P: That was real stupid of me to do [(I ususally don't but
C: [No it's not stupid. It's not stupid. It's just I I people say
that (.) It's human. Okay. It just it happens. You just need to know that
it happened, that you're anxious as a result, and you're going to try to
make it not happen again, but [I wouldn't
P: [(It's true)
C: I wouldn't say it's stupid. I mean I just know what I've done in my life
and I
P: (laughs)
C: You know. And I think counselors are among the bigger offenders in that
sort of stuff because we hear so much and we give results and we look at
stuff >and da da<. So I don't know that behavior is like that and
behaviors is like that if it becomes destructive and repetitive and things
like that. And I hear you tell (.) me that you knew it was alcohol and you
knew that led to it. So the next time you do that keep a couple condoms
in your pocket to do that sort of thing. I mean obviously from what you
from what I'm hearing (.) you're comfortable with condoms
P: Oh yes.
C: You know, you obviously know that they're usable that they're the one
thing that stops HIV, and that sort of thing. They're a barrier to some
forms of pleasure but there's things you can do about them, you can put
(.) lubes on, before you put the condom on, you put the lube on (.)on your
penis, you put the lube on top of the condom. All those things help, I mean.(1.5).think
about that. Okay. Ahh, have any of the partners you've been with had other
partners shortly before, after or during, or shortly before or dur.while
they've been with you.
P: Not that I know of (laughs)
C: Okay, okay. That's a tough question, I never really know how to ask that,
like "have you ever been with someone who was not a virgin?"
P: (laughs)
C: Well yes but you know. How does that go. So how many partners would you
say you've been with in a year, since last, [last Superbowl.
P: [in last.last Superbowl, probably (one) (0.8) three.
C: Okay.And have you ever had an STD.sexually transmitted disease check
up
P: No, I never have.
C: Okay, how old are you
P: I'm 24.
C: Yeah so you don't actually need one unless you have a symptom, okay.
When you get to be 26, 28 you might think about having one.
P: yeah
C: If you have a symptom which is a drip or a pain, on your penis or a wart
or something, show up sooner. Don't go, "Well the counselor said I
didn't have to come in, so:"
P: (laughs)
C: Okay, ever been with a prostitute or sex worker
P: No (chuckles)
C: Received money or drugs for sex?
P: N(h)o
C: We ask these of everybody, because it's funny sometimes we're
going along and I say that and there's a pause and someone goes >"yes"<
P: [Oh really?
C: [and then we go in and talk a little bit.Yeah
P: Mm
C: I mean we see a thousand, fourteen, sixteen hundred people a year here,
and I also do counseling down at the bath house, And I roll through the
questions, you know and I try to make them come up naturally. And every
now and then I get a "yes" on that. And it means I ask a little
more in that area. okay just as I touched down a little more with you on
the=
P: On the [alcohol=
C: =[alcohol and stuff yeah. It just, each of these just sort of creates
a way to talk and check risk and stuff like that and that's why we do that.
And the next question is another one of those tricky ones, what does it
mean. Any (.) any behavior that results in other blood to blood contact,
which means tattooing, piercing, branding, cutting flesh, stuff like that
P: Nno.
C: Alright. Okay. Any fingers inserted in the anus, the vagina, or the mouth
during sex play
P: No [breathy]
C: Okay. If there is, I mean sometimes for stimulation and stuff, it's not
necessarily HIV, obviously, theoretically it could pass HIV if you have
a cut on your hand, you broke into the partner's (1) somewhere. Partner
did that to you, if they're stimulating you, by stimulating you through
your rectum, and stuff. The thing is it's more likely your going
to get an sexually transmitted disease than you're going
[to get HIV
P: [than HIV
C: Okay. Any blood exposure through school or work or job?
P: No, no.
C: Okay. (1) How do you identify yourself by race?
P: By race? I'm Caucasian, I think (laughing).
C: That's fine.
P: Yeah.
C: This is the _____ Clinic. It's you're job to tell us. You can
tell me anything
P: [laughing]
Actually, I'm Middle Eastern/Persian but ahh, they classify us under Caucasian,
which I actually don't approve of it but they do, so.
(1.5)
C: Well (.) you're closer to the Cauc.Caucasus than my ancestors from Scotland,
so I'm.
(laughing). going to do that. And I put your gender down as male.
P: yeah.
C: I'm just telling you that,
P: (laughs)
I'm not supposed to presume, so I'm checking in. Your residence county?
P: Ahh, California.
C: Where do you live?
P: Actually I.
C: Where do you get your mail?
P: Oh, I get my mail in LA.
C: Okay.So you're going to be back here for your result in two weeks or
what?
P: Yeah
C: Okay. And your zip code down in LA
P: Umm. 90___.
C: (4) I used to know those. I used to.I lived in _____ for a long time.
Ahh. You're not pregnant, right?
P: No (laughs)
C: You laugh! It's one of those crazy form things. We have this section
that says ask females only the question, so I don't ask you that, because
I presumed already you were going to tell me you were male when we got to
that question. But it."is client pregnant," it doesn't ask. You
know. So I've got to put no down. Ahh, (.) we have the pregnant question,
not for you obviously, but if someone told us they were pregnant, and came
in
P: Mm hm
and were turned out to be positive we'd have to have all sorts of (.) resources
ready at that point. How did you hear about us at the _____ Clinic.
P: I just actually read a brochure when I was going to ahh to school
C: [At UC
P: [at U Yeah.
C: A:nd your primary reason for testing as I hear it, is that you came in
for this recent incident but it was too soon. (9) I'm making a lot of notes
and I'm writing, "came in about recent incident of unprotected (1.5)
sex one month ago (2) retest (0.5) in (.) late May." Okay.
P: Sure.
C: Any questions for me?
P: No. I don't have any questions.
C: I'm going to just show you 'cause it may have been different. We're going
to do the lab slip.
P: Uh huh.
C: And I'm marking your age, you're male, from LA, and you have a previous
test which we said was 10/93 which was negative.
P: Yeah.
C: .hhhh Okay. These numbers on the slip are all unique, it's the same number
in other words, repeated. Each of these is used for a different purpose.
This one, for example, is going on this, because the blood drawers don't
need to know what you told me about your (0.5) life. Okay?
P: Okay.
C: Ahh, some of these will go in their lab book on the tube of blood that's
going to go to the state, to the county lab. And the county lab will use
a couple of them,
P: M hm.
C: okay, depends how many times they test your blood. They're going to do
a very sensitive test called an ELISA test. And the ELISA reacts to a lot
of things, usually the HIV and the strains of HIV. But sometimes because
it's very sensitive it might pick up something else, and so before we tell
you you were positive we would do another test called the Western Blot.
P: M hm.
C: Okay. So it's very sensitive so if we get a negative we know it's a negative.
Okay. If it gets a If it gets a positive, we'll do another test to make
sure it's for HIV. Okay? Ahh, and then the last part of these slips which
doesn't have any identifiers for what it is, is for your test. Okay. For
your test result.
P: [For when you come back (for the results).
C: For when you come back. It's two weeks and if you can't make it in two
weeks we give the result to you for up to two [months.
P: [Okay
C: And after that we get rid of it. Okay? Keep your yellow four, because
that's how they're going to call you for the blood test.
P: M hm.
C: Okay?
P: And then I have to wait outside again?
C: Yeah, it should just take about three or four minutes. I'm now going
to stop this tape, unless you have any other questions.
P: No I don't.
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